I tried to go to the museum at the Dulles airport today. Boy, they do a
good job of hidding that little gem. D.C. easily has the worst roads
for visitors in any city in any country I've ever visited. It is very
hard to find things...

1) Many roads have formal names as well as common names. The map lists
the formal name but the signs often only use the common name (i.e. U.S.
123 is formal but Foobar St. is common).
2) Often turn off signs are located at the turn off or just after the
turn off, no warning. For example, from 66 to 50 there is a sign "50
next turn", however, there is a concrete barrier between you and the
off ramp. You had to predict that you needed to get off before the
barrier begins, but the sign is after the barrier
3) Slower drivers don't seem to have any inclination to stay to the
right.
4) Sometimes two roads will have the same name. For example, when you
get to the end of 66 W you have the option of taking the 66 E ramp.
That ramp takes you North of the hwy and down another freeway entirly,
seeming to never get you back to the original road (also named 66) that
you were just on.
5) Even though the museum is at the airport DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT, DO
NOT take the "Airport road". This is a 7 mile long hell hole with NO
EXITS until you get to the main Dulles terminal. You have to ride it
out both ways. It would be nice if they said "No turn off for 7 miles
before you bought the road. Or even U turn places would work.
6) At one point there was a sign that said "use exit 9B for museum".
Then the freeways splits 3 says. Never did find out which of the 3
roads contained a 9B.

By the time I got there it was 59 minutes before closing and they close
the main gate an hour before closing. So 2 hours of driving all over
the place were wasted. Next time, I'm bringing the laptop with the
built-in GPS and teach my wife to use it.

-Robert, frustrated D.C. tourist

(BTW: If you take the Metro and bring your family, understand that you
can only run your credit card once per day (the system will reject it
after that). So if you have a family of 4 and want to add money to each
person's metro card (each must be done seperately) you must carry 4
credit cards.)

However, all on all, I'm having a great time!!

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com
>
> I tried to go to the museum at the Dulles airport today. Boy, they do
> a good job of hidding that little gem. D.C. easily has the worst roads
> for visitors in any city in any country I've ever visited. It is very
> hard to find things...

I'm sorry to hear you suffered those frustrations. I can't do much about
the roads, but if you'd let some of us know your intentions ahead of time,
we *may* have been able to save you some trouble. :)

From downtown'ish, perhaps an easier trip (although not necessarily shorter)
is:
I-66 West to Route 28 (Sully Road) North.
Stay on Route 28 and follow the big brown signs to the museum. You'll cross
Route 50 (Lee Jackson Highway), pass Sully Plantation, then you'll exit for
the museum.

If you're downtown already, you can catch a regular shuttle bus that runs
between the downtown museum and the Dulles extension. The ride costs ~$8
which is $4 cheaper than parking at the Dulles museum.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
____________________

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message

......D.C. easily has the worst roads
> for visitors in any city in any country I've ever visited. It is very
> hard to find things...
>
> 1) Many roads have formal names as well as common names. The map lists
> the formal name but the signs often only use the common name (i.e. U.S.
> 123 is formal but Foobar St. is common).

This is standard procedure everywhere. Roads have different names in
different municipalities. Route number signs are posted along the right
side at intervals. This is a federal standard that applies everywhere.

> 2) Often turn off signs are located at the turn off or just after the
> turn off, no warning. For example, from 66 to 50 there is a sign "50
> next turn", however, there is a concrete barrier between you and the
> off ramp. You had to predict that you needed to get off before the
> barrier begins, but the sign is after the barrier

No, not often, but that one case you cite is a bear. When you hit I66w from
the Beltway North, the exit for 50 comes quickly. The "50 next turn" sign
refers to the Ox Rd exit, about a half mile down. That turnoff on the other
side of the barrier just goes into a residential development.

> 3) Slower drivers don't seem to have any inclination to stay to the
> right.

I agree with you here. Some are deliberately playing the politically
correct speed game, but for the most part I have never anywhere encountered
a more generally oblivious group of drivers than in the Northern VA area.

> 4) Sometimes two roads will have the same name. For example, when you
> get to the end of 66 W you have the option of taking the 66 E ramp.
> That ramp takes you North of the hwy and down another freeway entirly,
> seeming to never get you back to the original road (also named 66) that
> you were just on.

Look at a map [perhaps before your trip, next time]. Where I66 and the
Beltway intersect, there is a large, triangular intersection that actually
spans a few miles, so there are really two I66s that you'll encounter from
the Beltway.

> 5) Even though the museum is at the airport DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT, DO
> NOT take the "Airport road". This is a 7 mile long hell hole with NO
> EXITS until you get to the main Dulles terminal.

Actually, iirc, the Dulles Road is now a double barreled highway, with one
section express to Dulles and the outer section having local exits. I also
recall pretty good signage at the start of the double section, but I guess
you just missed it. Kinda like getting stuck in an express HOV lane if you
miss the signs.

Sorry you had such a frustrating time.

"John Gaquin" > writes:

> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
>
> .....D.C. easily has the worst roads
>> for visitors in any city in any country I've ever visited. It is very
>> hard to find things...
>>
>> 1) Many roads have formal names as well as common names. The map lists
>> the formal name but the signs often only use the common name (i.e. U.S.
>> 123 is formal but Foobar St. is common).
>
> This is standard procedure everywhere. Roads have different names in
> different municipalities. Route number signs are posted along the right
> side at intervals. This is a federal standard that applies everywhere.

I've only very rarely seen it, at least at the level of freeways,
which is what I think the OP was talking about. Chicago has a bunch,
and it really causes confusion. I haven't seen it other places much,
though.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, >, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>

On 28 May 2005 19:22:59 -0700, "Robert M. Gary" >
wrote:

>I tried to go to the museum at the Dulles airport today. Boy, they do a
>good job of hidding that little gem. D.C. easily has the worst roads
>for visitors in any city in any country I've ever visited. It is very
>hard to find things...

Well, Dulles and Udvar-Hazy are located in Virginia, so it's not fair
to blame your problems on the District.

>By the time I got there it was 59 minutes before closing and they close
>the main gate an hour before closing. So 2 hours of driving all over
>the place were wasted. Next time, I'm bringing the laptop with the
>built-in GPS and teach my wife to use it.

I've never tried it by automobile, but the $7 bus from NASM downtown
is easy, competitive with U-H parking unless you've got a gang, and
enables you to see the sights of DC.

>(BTW: If you take the Metro and bring your family, understand that you
>can only run your credit card once per day (the system will reject it
>after that). So if you have a family of 4 and want to add money to each
>person's metro card (each must be done seperately) you must carry 4
>credit cards.)

I've found that all cities, not just DC, eat twenty-dollar bills. When
I go to town, I just load up with twenties, fives, and quarters.
>
>However, all on all, I'm having a great time!!

Going back to UH, now that you know the way, is really worth the
effort. I got there before it opened for the day, and I left on the
three o'clock bus, and I was enthralled every minute except for those
I spent in the gift shop.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

Its amazing how good they are at eating $$. When I was driving around
lost (trying to follow M.S. streets on my PDA) I easily hit every toll
booth around Dulles (3 of them). The $7 bus ride math works differently
for me because I have to multiply everything by 4. So the bus ride is
$28 but parking is still $12. :) The big ****er is my GPS plug-in
(Holux 270U that plugs into my PDA) went TU just before I left. I sent
it back and just got an email that it will take 2 to 3 months to repair
under waranty. I sure could have used it now.

-Robert

> -Robert, frustrated D.C. tourist

You've convinced me, Robert: Flying in is the way to go...

Isn't it amazing that we (as a people) have so many highly paid "public
servants" who do NOTHING but design road systems -- and yet can get it so
wrong?

Iowa City is full of this kind of stupidity. We've got Muscatine St.,
Muscatine Avenue, Lower Muscatine Dr -- what, like, no one could think of a
unique name for these streets? When we first moved here, we were on the
wrong Muscatine every day.

And this isn't an isolated incident, and it's certainly not unique to Iowa
City. Every city I've lived in has similar examples.

What I like is when the road planners decided to install "traffic calming
devices" (AKA: Chicanes) on a road -- without telling the residents in
advance! Overnight, they started installing these crazy things that
required traffic to literally zig-zag down their street.

Needless to say, the residents were furious, and went straight to City Hall.
Within a month, the work crews were out, bulldozing the new chicanes -- at
incredible expense.

Even funnier is our latest-and-greatest computer-controlled stoplights, now
with little cameras on each pole. Because of this wonderful system, it is
now possible to get EVERY SINGLE RED LIGHT as you drive across town! What
a wonderful innovation!

When traffic is relatively light, they do an okay job of keeping things
moving -- but as soon as things pick up, bang -- you WILL get every red
light, as it is working just a smidge out of sync with the actual traffic
flow.

You'd think they'd get this right, by now. I lived in Racine, WI when they
received a grant for the very first non-experimental, computer-controlled
stop lights in the nation, way back in the early 1970s. These were the
first "loop-in-the-ground" sensors, all connected to a central computer down
at City Hall. I actually wrote an article about this system for my high
school newspaper, and it was a marvel of technology (the computer looked
like something out of Lost in Space) for the time.

And -- it worked. Because all the lights were interconnected, there was an
"over-ride" mode that would enable the system to sense big slugs of traffic
at rush hour. They would then stop individually sensing (and changing) and
become more "sequenced" -- just like the old mechanical stop lights tried to
do.

I don't know why they got away from that -- I suppose cost.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Maybe its worse with M.S streets since it only seems to show the
federal name. I've noticed that back home in Sacramento. It lists
streets as U.S. 123. I've lived in Sacramento for 20 years and never
knew those streets by that name. It would be nice if street signs
listed both names. I do have a map, its M.S. streets. Since I knew the
museum was at the airport I followed the sign that said "Airport
traffic". WOW, BIG MISTAKE. That is the 7 mile long, no exit, no U turn
road that takes you to the terminal.
I do have to say that once you figure out the Metro it does work
nicely. They run frequently and seem to run on time. It is more
complicated than other city trains I've taken but it works. You
actually seem to pay by the mile, so when you get on the train you look
up the station you will get off on and it gives you the price. Each
station to station is a different price. I still think the Paris Metro
is easier to understand though, they just use zones to distiguish
price.

-Robert

While you are in town, be sure to go to the College Park Air Museum.
It's easy to find. Just follow the Rt 1 Metro signs or take the Metro.
Great museum without the hassles of the Dulles Smithsonian. Nice
restraunt on the field too.

Also, if you think you might be flying yourself into DC again, while you
are at College Park you can pick up the paperwork procedures for being
vetted into the DC3. You'll need to make a trip to National Airport and
one of the local FSDOs, but you'll be able to fly yourself into
College Park and catch the metro from there on future trips.

Helen

"John Gaquin" wrote:
> ...for the most part I have never anywhere encountered a more
> generally oblivious group of drivers than in the
> Northern VA area.
>

I have never been to any city in the U. S. where the locals did not
believe their fellow drivers were the worst anywhere.

A sure way to start an "I can top that!" contest is to mention, in a
room full of people from around the country, how bad the drivers are
back home.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
> We've got Muscatine St., Muscatine Avenue, Lower Muscatine Dr -- what,
> like, no one could think of a unique name for these streets? When we
> first moved here, we were on the wrong Muscatine every day.

Perhaps it's the exaggerated impression of an out-of-towner, but aren't
half the streets, lanes, parkways and boulevards in Atlanta named
"Peachtree?"

....not to mention an airport.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Robert M. Gary wrote:

> By the time I got there it was 59 minutes before closing and they close
> the main gate an hour before closing. So 2 hours of driving all over
> the place were wasted. Next time, I'm bringing the laptop with the
> built-in GPS and teach my wife to use it.

Say what? The main gate stays open well beyond closing. As a matter
of fact after 4PM the parking lot toll takers depart so you don't
even have to pay.

Sorry about our rather confusing road systems. Theres all sorts of
stupid political reasons. You don't have to ride out the Dulles road
both ways however. Once you make the (quasi improper) pass by the
main terminal you can exit at the first exit (all the airport road
exits FACE the airport, the road is a going-to-from Dulles only
exercise). The museum is three miles or so down Route 28 (which
nobody really calls Sully Road) on the right. Along with another
curiosity that NOBODY has explained to me: the employee entrance
to the airport used to be "GATE 4" but when they built the museum
entrance at the same point it is now Gate 317? Nobody has been
able to explain where 317 comes from. I call it gate 9 3/4 now.

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Maybe its worse with M.S streets since it only seems to show the
> federal name.

We actually have three levels of names. What EVERYBODY refers
to as the "Fairfax Count Parkway" is also known as state road
7100 and by the official name "John (Jack) Herrity Parkway"
(it also has a fourth name "Springfield Bypass" but they gave
up on that one some time ago, the road still fails to either
enter or bypass Springfield, that's the last two miles they
ever finished).

Margy's car's satnav system displays the first three of those.
It makes the screen a bit cluttered.

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
>
> I have never been to any city in the U. S. where the locals did not
> believe their fellow drivers were the worst anywhere.

......except that I am not a native, nor currently a resident, of the
Washington, No VA area.

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message

>... I do have a map, its M.S. streets.

Ah, there's the problem. Next time you travel, invest in a real map book.
I recommend those published by American Map. An $18-$20 purchase could have
saved you a hundred worth of aggravation.

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>
> Even funnier is our latest-and-greatest computer-controlled stoplights,
> now with little cameras on each pole. Because of this wonderful system,
> it is now possible to get EVERY SINGLE RED LIGHT as you drive across town!
> What a wonderful innovation!
>
> When traffic is relatively light, they do an okay job of keeping things
> moving -- but as soon as things pick up, bang -- you WILL get every red
> light, as it is working just a smidge out of sync with the actual traffic
> flow.
>

When I lived in Denver in the early 70s, they had lights on main
thoroughfares synchronized to the speed limit. I don't know what the system
was. If you drove right about the speed limit, you could go six miles
across town and hit every green. I did it numerous times. Those who tried
to rush invariably got caught at the next light.

Just remember, if the lights are set for 30, they are also set for 90.

Jim



>
> Even funnier is our latest-and-greatest computer-controlled stoplights,
> now with little cameras on each pole. Because of this wonderful system,
> it is now possible to get EVERY SINGLE RED LIGHT as you drive across town!
> What a wonderful innovation!
>

Dan Luke asked, "... aren't half the streets, lanes, parkways and boulevards
in Atlanta named Peachtree?"

My wife and I had the same impression.

("Ron Natalie" wrote)
> We actually have three levels of names. What EVERYBODY refers
> to as the "Fairfax Count Parkway" is also known as state road
> 7100 and by the official name "John (Jack) Herrity Parkway"
> (it also has a fourth name "Springfield Bypass" but they gave
> up on that one some time ago, the road still fails to either
> enter or bypass Springfield, that's the last two miles they
> ever finished).


We had (Freeway) 118 pass by our airport for years - with an Airport Rd
exit.

They finally connected 118 to the "610 bridge" (Mississippi River) in 1998
after about 15 years of no construction. I said flip a coin for the final
name - I liked 118 because it was on my side of the river <g>, plus we
already have a 694 just south of us, so 610 might be confusing for some I
thought.

They decided on Hwy 10. This is a problem.

The "old" Hwy 10 is the first exit south off of I-35 from the "new" Hwy 10
....confusion.

They added to the confusion. They renamed the previous Hwy 10 ...County 10.

So now when you head north on I-35 out of Minneapolis, instead of exiting on
118 (or 610) you now have two choices of 10's to exit on - right next to
each other. Hwy 10 or Co. Rd 10.

We call them "New 10" and "Old 10" but MN-DOT won't put that on the signs!!!

Oh well.


Montblack

> When I lived in Denver in the early 70s, they had lights on main
> thoroughfares synchronized to the speed limit. I don't know what the
> system was. If you drove right about the speed limit, you could go six
> miles across town and hit every green. I did it numerous times. Those who
> tried to rush invariably got caught at the next light.

Ah, those were the days -- I remember them well.

Now, with each stop light sensored individually, there is no "right" speed.

:-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

> I do have to say that once you figure out the Metro it does work
> nicely. They run frequently and seem to run on time. It is more
> complicated than other city trains I've taken but it works.

We loved the Metro!

When we visited D.C. in 2000, we didn't rent a car, choosing to ride the
Metro every day instead, and were delighted to find that it was clean, fast,
and went right where we wanted to go. (You're right, though -- figuring out
the fare system seemed to be overly complex.)

Just be careful where you go. On our last day we were "out" of museums, so
we went looking for the Navy Museum, which we discovered was located in or
near a pretty scary part of town.

I knew something was up when the station we got off at appeared to be
brand-spanking new -- and completely empty. When we ventured up the stairs
to street level, we took one look around and decided to get back on the
train... But the subway system itself was wonderful.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Dan Luke wrote:
>
> Perhaps it's the exaggerated impression of an out-of-towner, but aren't
> half the streets, lanes, parkways and boulevards in Atlanta named
> "Peachtree?"

No. There is exactly one Peachtree St. in Atlanta, GA. There are tons of other
streets with "Peachtree" in the name, but the only "Peachtree Street" is the
main drag that runs north from Five Points.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

Tell me about it. I visited Minneapolis a few years ago, and had some
real
fun trying to find my motel again after dark. The multiple "10s" naming
was
real confusing. I finally did it by remembering some landmarks (a water
tank and broadcast towers).

David Johnson

>
>
> We had (Freeway) 118 pass by our airport for years - with an Airport Rd
> exit.
>
> They finally connected 118 to the "610 bridge" (Mississippi River) in 1998
> after about 15 years of no construction. I said flip a coin for the final
> name - I liked 118 because it was on my side of the river <g>, plus we
> already have a 694 just south of us, so 610 might be confusing for some I
> thought.
>
> They decided on Hwy 10. This is a problem.
>
> The "old" Hwy 10 is the first exit south off of I-35 from the "new" Hwy 10
> ...confusion.
>
> They added to the confusion. They renamed the previous Hwy 10 ...County 10.
>
> So now when you head north on I-35 out of Minneapolis, instead of exiting on
> 118 (or 610) you now have two choices of 10's to exit on - right next to
> each other. Hwy 10 or Co. Rd 10.
>
> We call them "New 10" and "Old 10" but MN-DOT won't put that on the signs!!!
>
> Oh well.
>
>
> Montblack

On 29 May 2005 05:38:57 -0700, "Robert M. Gary" >
wrote:

>Maybe its worse with M.S streets since it only seems to show the
>federal name.

I was driving home with GPS guidance last fall (Garmin 286) and was
astonished to find NH 108 identified as New Hampshire College Highway.
I have lived in this area since 1950 and never heard it called that.
(NH College became UNH in 1928 :)


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

On Mon, 30 May 2005 00:53:46 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>We loved the Metro!
>
>When we visited D.C. in 2000, we didn't rent a car,

Everyone in DC rides the Metro. It is brilliantly designed, fast,
reasonably priced, and safe. I have ridden it from Greenbelt in the
north to Vienna in the southwest, from 7 a.m. to midnight, and I've
never felt a qualm.

There are no cops on the Metro, and no muggers either, and almost no
vagrants. It is rarely crowded. It may well be the best public
transport system in the world.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

On 29 May 2005 05:33:18 -0700, "Robert M. Gary" >
wrote:

>The $7 bus ride math works differently
>for me because I have to multiply everything by 4.

I think kids are half price. Evidently the fare is now $8, so it would
be $24 (I think). And for that you get to visit NASM next day :)

Of course, hotels are pricey in DC now, and everywhere. It takes a lot
of work to find a room under $200 a night. (Weekends are closer to
$100, but never reach it :)



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

The gate itself was actually closed. The exit gate was open and I was
inclined to go in through the out door but my wife was there and I knew
I'd hear about it for years.

-Robert

> There are no cops on the Metro, and no muggers either, and almost no
> vagrants. It is rarely crowded. It may well be the best public
> transport system in the world.

Really? No cops -- in one of the highest-crime cities in America? I seem
to remember seeing quite a bunch of police officers in the station, but none
on the trains themselves...

And you're right -- I don't remember seeing any pan-handlers.

How has D.C. managed to create such a great system? What's the secret?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Cub Driver wrote:
> Everyone in DC rides the Metro. It is brilliantly designed, fast,
> reasonably priced, and safe. I have ridden it from Greenbelt in the
> north to Vienna in the southwest, from 7 a.m. to midnight, and I've
> never felt a qualm.
>
> There are no cops on the Metro, and no muggers either, and almost no
> vagrants. It is rarely crowded. It may well be the best public
> transport system in the world.


That is absolutely correct. I was up in the DC area last month and my father
and I used it to ride from Falls Church into the District so we could visit the
Vietnam and Korean War Memorials. Everybody on the Metro looked like they
either worked for the government, a restaurant, or were touring like me. There
were no low lifes, no panhandlers in the stations, no graffiti, no cops and no
bad guys that I noticed. I felt completely at ease.

The only negative was trying to figure out how to work the ticket machines. I'd
learned in the past you *never* want to pay with a $20 bill. They claim the
Metro will send you a refund check within 10 days but it was more like 7 weeks.
Carry ones and fives and you can cover any contingency.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> The gate itself was actually closed. The exit gate was open and I was
> inclined to go in through the out door but my wife was there and I knew
> I'd hear about it for years.


Years? If you're married to a woman it's more likely to be for the rest of your
life. Don't ask me how I know this.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

Jay Honeck > wrote:
>And you're right -- I don't remember seeing any pan-handlers.
>
>How has D.C. managed to create such a great system? What's the secret?

All the pan-handlers have offices on the Hill.

Blanche wrote:
> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>
>>And you're right -- I don't remember seeing any pan-handlers.
>>
>>How has D.C. managed to create such a great system? What's the secret?
>
>
> All the pan-handlers have offices on the Hill.
>
>
Did I just hear a rim shot?

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
>
> Years? If you're married to a woman it's more likely to be for the rest of your
> life.

Not with the divorce rate the way it is. :-)

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

94th Aerosquadron, one of my fav places to eat.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

Robert,

I have lived here next door to Dulles since 1976, moved here from
Elkheart, KS. I've been here ever since one could buy a house for
$15,000.00. Now single family homes are starting at $600k+ not
including options. I lived in Herndon when there was only one traffic
light in town and we kids used to go see it change colors when, on rare
occasions, a car would come by. I knew the sherriff and his one and
only deputy by name and they would just scoll me if I did anything
wrong. Now Herndon is overflowing with cops and each one will stun-gun
you and mace you before writing you a ticket for failing to proceed at
a green light within the first two seconds of the color change.

All that land now under the flight paths (departure/arrival) of the
heavies were once cheap, cheap, cheap. Now, you can't touch them
without first selling your momma to a Thai whore house.

Anyways, welcome to NOVA (Northern Virginia).

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

Jay,

What is your ETA? Anything you need from my end? The condo in
Manassas has been rented out. But, if you don't mind our little house,
you and your family are welcome to stay with us and the offer to drive
you around is still good. I am free to show you around, I don't have
any projects going on right now.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

On Mon, 30 May 2005 12:55:40 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>How has D.C. managed to create such a great system? What's the secret?

For one thing, it was designed to be graffito-proof. The dim lighting
results from the rough concrete walls, which when you look at them
turn out to be out of reach. And most everything that is within reach
is shiny black.

There's no circular line. While it's theoretically possible to ride
back and forth all day, then get out at a station nearby, it's still
not a convenient sleep. And the Metro card may be time-stamped to
prohibit it--I don't know.

Doubtless there are security cameras, and there may be more kopz
around than I ever saw.

But I think the big deterrent to crime is the fact that the Metro is a
middle-class transportation system. At eleven o'clock it is full of
people in jackets and ties, going home from the theater. Because it is
comfortable, it is used, and because it is used, it is safe (or seems
to be, which is pretty much the same thing).


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

> Now Herndon is overflowing with cops and each one will stun-gun
> you and mace you before writing you a ticket for failing to proceed at
> a green light within the first two seconds of the color change.

Wow -- what a great law!

Here in the land of the eternally mellow government employee (can't be THAT
much different than D.C.), the light can be green for 3 - 5 seconds before
anyone even THINKS about moving. If you're 20 cars back, it can be three
changes of the lights.

I think the stun-gun would prove quite useful, actually...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

> What is your ETA? Anything you need from my end?

Thanks, Bryan. We're still awaiting "The Final Word" from Margy about
hotels, discounts, landing fees, etc., but we're planning to arrive in D.C.
on Friday, June 10th.

Once I've got a handle on those other arrangements, I'll be able to let you
know what's up.

I really appreciate the lodging offer, but I suspect we'll probably find a
hotel near Dulles, just for convenience sake. Got any suggestions? All I
ask is that it have a suite, with two separate sleeping areas for the kids
and us.

Blue skies!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message

> ......the light can be green for 3 - 5 seconds before anyone even THINKS
> about moving.

It is ironic. Physically operating a car doesn't require a great deal of
skill. But traffic is a dynamic system, and the one requirement for system
smoothness that crosses all boundaries is that people must pay attention,
else the system grind to a halt of its own weight. Yet, inattention and
oblivion are the constants you can find no matter where you go.

> It is ironic. Physically operating a car doesn't require a great deal of
> skill. But traffic is a dynamic system, and the one requirement for
> system smoothness that crosses all boundaries is that people must pay
> attention, else the system grind to a halt of its own weight. Yet,
> inattention and oblivion are the constants you can find no matter where
> you go.

True.

And this is accentuated when you live in an employment culture (AKA: A city
where the Gubmint is the primary employer) that exerts little pressure to
perform, or even to arrive at work on time.

No one is paying attention here because there is no reason to do so. They
cannot be fired, so why worry about being late?

For those of us who work in "The Real World" it can be incredibly
frustrating.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article >,
Cub Driver > wrote:

>
> But I think the big deterrent to crime is the fact that the Metro is a
> middle-class transportation system. At eleven o'clock it is full of
> people in jackets and ties, going home from the theater. Because it is
> comfortable, it is used, and because it is used, it is safe (or seems
> to be, which is pretty much the same thing).
>

Sounds like the rapid transit systems in a lot of European cities
(Munich or Zurich, for example; all of Holland; most German cities; and
so on), and with the same result: The systems get used, and once you
get used to how convenient and comfortable it can be for you (and for
your family of all ages) to use them -- to be able to ride point to
point, reading or relaxing as you go, no traffic fights, no parking
fights at the destination, OK for your kids to use by themselves also --
you wish many U.S. cities could get over the chicken and egg problem of
getting to similar situations.

Cub Driver wrote:

>
> For one thing, it was designed to be graffito-proof. The dim lighting
> results from the rough concrete walls, which when you look at them
> turn out to be out of reach. And most everything that is within reach
> is shiny black.

The dim lighting results from having dim lighting. Even the stations
that have painted the originally unfinished concrete with white paint
are DARK.


> There's no circular line. While it's theoretically possible to ride
> back and forth all day, then get out at a station nearby, it's still
> not a convenient sleep. And the Metro card may be time-stamped to
> prohibit it--I don't know.

The system doesn't run all night either. Originally it closed
at midnight, but that's been extended of late.

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> Here in the land of the eternally mellow government employee (can't be
THAT
> much different than D.C.), the light can be green for 3 - 5 seconds before
> anyone even THINKS about moving. If you're 20 cars back, it can be three
> changes of the lights.


That was one thing that I really remember, that made a strong impression on
me, in Paris. When the light changes, the first car and the 20th car all
step on the gas! It was like formation driving. Everyone left at once, and
held the 3 foot interval, until you were through the light. Then, and only
then, did you increase the following distance!
--
Jim in NC

Cub Driver wrote:
>
> For one thing, it was designed to be graffito-proof.

Exactly. The Atlanta system copied some of the features. Floors are tile and can
be cleaned with caustic chemicals to remove paint. Walls and ceilings are either
concrete or aluminum with a baked-on coating. Just about any type of readily
available paint can be removed from either with strippers that won't harm the
coating on the aluminum. Stuff that won't come off the concrete is just painted
over with concrete-colored paint.

Of course, some people have discovered that you can carve slogans and such into
the aluminum. In Atlanta, perpetrators are likely to require a short detour to
Grady (the trauma hospital) en route to the jail if they are caught.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

Robert M. Gary wrote:

> By the time I got there it was 59 minutes before closing and they close
> the main gate an hour before closing. So 2 hours of driving all over
> the place were wasted. Next time, I'm bringing the laptop with the
> built-in GPS and teach my wife to use it.
>

The parking attendants go home at 4 but the gates are then left open
(usually until about 6 when the last IMAX movie gets out). This is the
famous cheap school teachers trick, come in after 4, it's a short visit,
but it's free.

Margy

Cub Driver wrote:
> On 29 May 2005 05:33:18 -0700, "Robert M. Gary" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>The $7 bus ride math works differently
>>for me because I have to multiply everything by 4.
>
>
> I think kids are half price. Evidently the fare is now $8, so it would
> be $24 (I think). And for that you get to visit NASM next day :)
>
It's now $12 for tickets 1-3 and rates go down (marginally) from there.
http://www.nasm.si.edu/visit/shuttlebus.cfm for the full details.

While on the nasm webpage check out
http://www.nasm.si.edu/events/eventDetail.cfm?eventID=295

other than the fact some of the listed aircraft are from a really old
list and aren't coming (no T-38, the King Air was replace by a Citation,
no Grumman TR2). The Predator will actually be reassembled in the
museum during the day so that should be fun.

The day will be GREAT (I just need perfect weather)

Margy

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> The gate itself was actually closed. The exit gate was open and I was
> inclined to go in through the out door but my wife was there and I knew
> I'd hear about it for years.
>
> -Robert
>
All five of them were closed? That's really odd.

Margy

On Tue, 31 May 2005 12:02:43 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>I really appreciate the lodging offer, but I suspect we'll probably find a
>hotel near Dulles, just for convenience sake

There are a bunch (I don't know about suites), and when I looked into
the situation, they were a whole lot cheaper than downtown. But the
airfare savings by flying Southwest into Baltimore, plus not having to
rent a car, more than made up for it, and I *like* downtown DC.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

On Tue, 31 May 2005 16:49:08 -0400, "Morgans"
> wrote:

>That was one thing that I really remember, that made a strong impression on
>me, in Paris. When the light changes, the first car and the 20th car all
>step on the gas! It was like formation driving.

When I drove through the Mont Blanc tunnel, and after I paid the toll,
a woman signaled me to pull over. She'd been in the car behind me. I
rolled down my wind and got hit by a torrent of Italian. I tried to
answer, and she, realizing I wasn't Italian, launched into French. I
tried to answer in French. Since I couldn't speak either language to
her standard, she realized that I must be American, so she switched to
English: "WHY YOU GO SO SLOW IN TUNNEL?"

Evidently I had broken the formation.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

I can relate to the European driving! When I was in Italy I soon discovered
that the green light meant "Go and haul butt", the yellow meant," what the
heck go and haul butt" , and the red meant" ahhh go for it and haul butt".
And it seemed so strange to see 4 or 5 people on those moped looking little
scooters going just as fast as they could !

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech


"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 31 May 2005 16:49:08 -0400, "Morgans"
> > wrote:
>
>>That was one thing that I really remember, that made a strong impression
>>on
>>me, in Paris. When the light changes, the first car and the 20th car all
>>step on the gas! It was like formation driving.
>
> When I drove through the Mont Blanc tunnel, and after I paid the toll,
> a woman signaled me to pull over. She'd been in the car behind me. I
> rolled down my wind and got hit by a torrent of Italian. I tried to
> answer, and she, realizing I wasn't Italian, launched into French. I
> tried to answer in French. Since I couldn't speak either language to
> her standard, she realized that I must be American, so she switched to
> English: "WHY YOU GO SO SLOW IN TUNNEL?"
>
> Evidently I had broken the formation.
>
>
>
> -- all the best, Dan Ford
>
> email (put Cubdriver in subject line)
>
> Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
> Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
> the blog: www.danford.net
> In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

("W P Dixon" wrote)
>I can relate to the European driving! When I was in Italy I soon discovered
>that the green light meant "Go and haul butt", the yellow meant," what the
>heck go and haul butt" , and the red meant" ahhh go for it and haul butt".
>And it seemed so strange to see 4 or 5 people on those moped looking little
>scooters going just as fast as they could !


Our friend grew up around Mexico City. She was surprised (after she moved to
Minnesota) the first time she saw a lone car pull up at a neighborhood 4 way
stop ... and actually stop!

She said rules of the road, and traffic signs are merely suggestions where
she is from. Yikes!!


Montblack

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("W P Dixon" wrote)
>>I can relate to the European driving! When I was in Italy I soon
>>discovered that the green light meant "Go and haul butt", the yellow
>>meant," what the heck go and haul butt" , and the red meant" ahhh go for
>>it and haul butt". And it seemed so strange to see 4 or 5 people on those
>>moped looking little scooters going just as fast as they could !
>
>
> Our friend grew up around Mexico City. She was surprised (after she moved
> to Minnesota) the first time she saw a lone car pull up at a neighborhood
> 4 way stop ... and actually stop!
>
> She said rules of the road, and traffic signs are merely suggestions where
> she is from. Yikes!!
>
>
> Montblack

I spent 2 years in Tehran, Iran back in the mid 1970s and it sounds like
their traffic is very similar to Mexico.

- The "Law of the Bumper" rules

- Any lane (one or more) can and will turn left/right at the next
intersection.

- Four way stops mean you might lift off the throttle a little bit, but if
you've honked the horn and/or flashed the headlights you don't have to.

- Lane markings are only there to tell work crews where to eventually
repave.

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

Cub Driver > writes:

>On Tue, 31 May 2005 12:02:43 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>>I really appreciate the lodging offer, but I suspect we'll probably find a
>>hotel near Dulles, just for convenience sake

>There are a bunch (I don't know about suites), and when I looked into
>the situation, they were a whole lot cheaper than downtown. But the
>airfare savings by flying Southwest into Baltimore, plus not having to
>rent a car, more than made up for it, and I *like* downtown DC.

There's a hotel at Dulles (Sheraton, IIRC); south of the terminal on
Route 28 there's a Hilton that's just north of the entrance ramp to
the museum. There are some hotels north of the Dulles Access Road
around Herndon and Reston, and at most of the interchanges on
the Dulles Access Road.

No, I don't know what the room rates might be except that they are
probably far cheaper than anything in DC.

Joe Morris

"Cub Driver" > wrote

>Since I couldn't speak either language to
> her standard, she realized that I must be American, so she switched to
> English: "WHY YOU GO SO SLOW IN TUNNEL?"
>
> Evidently I had broken the formation.

Chuckle! Evidently!

In the same vein, answering another post in this thread, a cabby in
Amsterdam said (after my Dad commented on running a red light) said, "

Nah, not red, it was between yellow and red. Orange. I step on gas and
squash it. I make orange juice!"

This was after he shoved 4 adults and 2 kids into an old Impala, (at our
request) and had to tie down the trunk, for all of the luggage sticking out.
He drove on the trolley track (in the middle) and stayed there to pass a
car, until he was playing chicken with an oncoming trolley. Wow. Wow. I
was glad to get to the hotel.

As far as that goes, I was glad to leave Amsterdam, after 3 days of
watching people shoot up in the streets and parks, with call girls sitting
in windows wearing a towel in their lap, (only) and pick-pockets everywhere.
One got my sisters credit cards, passport and euro-rail pass. It took her
all day to get the new passport and other things replaced. This was in '89,
I think. She did have an unusual one, being issued in Amsterdam, though.
<g>
--
Jim in NC

"Montblack" > wrote
>
> Our friend grew up around Mexico City. She was surprised (after she moved
to
> Minnesota) the first time she saw a lone car pull up at a neighborhood 4
way
> stop ... and actually stop!
>
> She said rules of the road, and traffic signs are merely suggestions where
> she is from. Yikes!!

After a couple weeks in Ecuador, I got back and had to suppress the urge to
honk the horn every time I passed a car.

The roads have no markings. If you wanted to pass, you honked the horn, and
went around them. This might be on a blind curve in the mountains, while
the car you are passing is passing a truck. If someone comes, everyone
gives a little, and you get back in line. I got to do a good bit of
driving, since we were visiting an ex exchange student and her family, and
her mom didn't like to drive.

The old AMC Eagle had a problem in the headlight dimmer switch, I found out,
as we were driving home in the dark, in the Andes mountains. The lights
would go out for no good reason. Mess with it, and they would *usually*
come back on in a couple of seconds. <g>
--
Jim in NC

"Joe Morris" > wrote
>
> There's a hotel at Dulles (Sheraton, IIRC); south of the terminal on
> Route 28 there's a Hilton that's just north of the entrance ramp to
> the museum. There are some hotels north of the Dulles Access Road
> around Herndon and Reston, and at most of the interchanges on
> the Dulles Access Road.

In about 1973, I went to DC with a high school group, and our hotel was
right off the end of one of the runways. Don't know which, but I do
remember it was right at the end, on the centerline. How do I know this?
One of the approach light stands was in the parking lot, or right at the
edge of it. <g>

If you were outside when a heavy went over, you had to stop talking for a
minute, because it was so loud. Surprisingly, it was almost completely
quite inside. I seem to remember concrete, or block walls about 3 feet
thick, and 3 sets of windows.

I would bet that hotel is one of the cheapest around! <g> Anyone know if it
is still there, and if so, what was the name of it?
--
Jim in NC

Can you get from downtown DC to the Dulles museum via the Metro or do
you have to take a bus?

Thanks,

BJ

Cub Driver wrote:

>On Mon, 30 May 2005 00:53:46 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>We loved the Metro!
>>
>>When we visited D.C. in 2000, we didn't rent a car,
>>
>>
>
>Everyone in DC rides the Metro. It is brilliantly designed, fast,
>reasonably priced, and safe. I have ridden it from Greenbelt in the
>north to Vienna in the southwest, from 7 a.m. to midnight, and I've
>never felt a qualm.
>
>There are no cops on the Metro, and no muggers either, and almost no
>vagrants. It is rarely crowded. It may well be the best public
>transport system in the world.
>
>
>-- all the best, Dan Ford
>
>email (put Cubdriver in subject line)
>
>Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
>Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
>the blog: www.danford.net
>In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com
>
>

As I'm moving to DC this weekend, this has been a most informative
thread.

Dave

There is a shuttle bus that goes from the Smithsonian at the Mall to the one
at Dulles. The Dulles museum is well worth seeing.

Jerry in NC

"B. Jensen" > wrote in message
...
> Can you get from downtown DC to the Dulles museum via the Metro or do you
> have to take a bus?
>
> Thanks,
>
> BJ
> Cub Driver wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 30 May 2005 00:53:46 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>We loved the Metro!
>>>
>>>When we visited D.C. in 2000, we didn't rent a car,
>>>
>>
>>Everyone in DC rides the Metro. It is brilliantly designed, fast,
>>reasonably priced, and safe. I have ridden it from Greenbelt in the
>>north to Vienna in the southwest, from 7 a.m. to midnight, and I've
>>never felt a qualm.
>>There are no cops on the Metro, and no muggers either, and almost no
>>vagrants. It is rarely crowded. It may well be the best public
>>transport system in the world.
>>
>>
>>-- all the best, Dan Ford
>>
>>email (put Cubdriver in subject line)
>>
>>Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
>>Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
>>the blog: www.danford.net
>>In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com
>>
>

I love driving in Paris. I drove there for the first time when I was
17, on a summber break to visit my mom in Toulouse. I stopped and
stayed in Parid first for a few days with my uncle. He rented a car
for me after my insistance, I wasn't old enough, and he didn't have a
car, because the subway was more convenient. The first time driving in
a circle was definitely an experience to rememeber. The streets were
tiny even for the compact that I was driving. At night cars are park
everywhere, including on sidewalks and medians. What a hecktic place.
The following trips, I opted for the metro and got a Europass to see
Europe. What a great deal that Europass was, one price, all you can
ride on Europes railway for a month.

Bryan

WP wrote"
I can relate to the European driving! When I was in Italy I soon
discovered
that the green light meant "Go and haul butt", the yellow meant," what
the
heck go and haul butt" , and the red meant" ahhh go for it and haul
butt".
And it seemed so strange to see 4 or 5 people on those moped looking
little
scooters going just as fast as they could !


Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech
"

That brings back memories and really put a big grin on my face. ;^)

Jay wrote:
>>I really appreciate the lodging offer, but I suspect we'll probably find a
hotel near Dulles, just for convenience sake. Got any suggestions?
All I
ask is that it have a suite, with two separate sleeping areas for the
kids
and us. >>

I'll see what I can find out. There are a few that have popped up
overnight, it seams almost. How many days are you staying?

Bryan

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:26:27 -0500, "B. Jensen"
> wrote:

>Can you get from downtown DC to the Dulles museum via the Metro or do
>you have to take a bus?

You have to take the dedicated NASM bus from the museum on the Mall.
The Metro plus bus will get you to Dulles (it's actually about the
same price, say two bucks on the Metro and five bucks on the Dulles
bus) but then you are nowhere near Udvar-Hazy. You'd have to take a
cab.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

B. Jensen wrote:
> Can you get from downtown DC to the Dulles museum via the Metro or do
> you have to take a bus?
>

You can't get anywhere near Dulles on the Metro. Your best bet is the
Smithsonian Shuttle that goes between the two musuems. The closest
you can get on Metro is to go to West Falls Church and catch the coach
up to the Main Terminal, but that places you 4 miles from the museum
with no way to get down there short of taking a cab. I can't explain
why there's no shuttle bus between the terminal and the museum other
than the fact that the parking is CHEAPER at the airport than at the
musueum.

I use Priceline everywhere. I paid $65/night for Comfort Inn in
Alexandria. It included breakfast (waffles, donuts, etc). Priceline is
the way to go if you travel often.

-Robert

B. Jensen wrote:
> Can you get from downtown DC to the Dulles museum via the Metro or do
> you have to take a bus?
>
> Thanks,
>
> BJ

The only transportation to the Udvar-Hazy Center is the "NASM Express"
which goes between the downtown museum and the Udvar-Hazy Center. See
the NASM webpage (www.nasm.si.edu) for details.

Margy
> Cub Driver wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 30 May 2005 00:53:46 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> We loved the Metro!
>>>
>>> When we visited D.C. in 2000, we didn't rent a car,
>>>
>>
>>
>> Everyone in DC rides the Metro. It is brilliantly designed, fast,
>> reasonably priced, and safe. I have ridden it from Greenbelt in the
>> north to Vienna in the southwest, from 7 a.m. to midnight, and I've
>> never felt a qualm.
>> There are no cops on the Metro, and no muggers either, and almost no
>> vagrants. It is rarely crowded. It may well be the best public
>> transport system in the world.
>>
>>
>> -- all the best, Dan Ford
>>
>> email (put Cubdriver in subject line)
>>
>> Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
>> Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
>> the blog: www.danford.net
>> In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com
>>
>>
>

Jay,

I stopped at Hawthorne Suites to get some info for you. This place is
in Herdon. The desk guy said that for Fri & Sat nites, $109.00 which
is very very good price around here and the place looks very clean.
The price is for a two bedroom suite. 1-800-527-1133.

Hawthorne Suites
467 Herndon Pkwy
Herndon, VA 20170
703-437-5000

Andy Anderson - Director of Sales ext. 603
Roger Ponce - Sales Mngr ext. 602
Dhanielle Graham - Operations Mngr ext. 611

Very hard to find non-Indian managed places around here. Let's just
say I had many bad experiences...

Anyways, I'll try to get you a couple more before you leave. I'll
email you my phone numbers.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

Jay,

My daughters had their semi black belt ceremony yesterday at 1:00pm and
at 3:00pm (two daughters in two different Tae Kwan Do groups due to age
difference). by the time we got done and went to the museum, they said
that every display had been removed and taken away. I asked about the
family from Iowa or Idaho, and they told me they didn't know anything
about it.

I was hoping that you'd call my cell phone, we went to a frtiends house
in gainsville to watch the Tyson's fight on PPV and I was hoping that
your family could come along to the fight/cookout.

Anyways, if you are still in town and want to hook up, please call us.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

> My daughters had their semi black belt ceremony yesterday at 1:00pm and
> at 3:00pm (two daughters in two different Tae Kwan Do groups due to age
> difference). by the time we got done and went to the museum, they said
> that every display had been removed and taken away. I asked about the
> family from Iowa or Idaho, and they told me they didn't know anything
> about it.

Hi Bryan,

Well, since I'm just receiving this message now, you know the answer. The
displays were taken down around 2PM, for reasons that I still don't fully
understand. Margy (if you're reading this) next year you might keep the
event going longer -- I mean, heck, as long as we were there, you might as
well make us work till, say, 3 PM?

;-)

Re: our anonymity. Oh well -- to most of the museum workers and volunteers
I'm sure we were just a "bunch of little planes out in the parking lot."
But, with any luck, we *may* have provided a little enlightenment to a few
visitors!

Dang, Bryan, I wish we could have met "in the flesh"... Next time!

Blue skies!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Next time Jay!

Bryan

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>My daughters had their semi black belt ceremony yesterday at 1:00pm and
>>at 3:00pm (two daughters in two different Tae Kwan Do groups due to age
>>difference). by the time we got done and went to the museum, they said
>>that every display had been removed and taken away. I asked about the
>>family from Iowa or Idaho, and they told me they didn't know anything
>>about it.
>
>
> Hi Bryan,
>
> Well, since I'm just receiving this message now, you know the answer. The
> displays were taken down around 2PM, for reasons that I still don't fully
> understand. Margy (if you're reading this) next year you might keep the
> event going longer -- I mean, heck, as long as we were there, you might as
> well make us work till, say, 3 PM?
First one, keep it simple, try to avoid IAD push in the afternoon
(didn't make it). We will be looking at the schedule for the next one
very carefully. I think everyone thinks longer will be better.
>
> ;-)
>
> Re: our anonymity. Oh well -- to most of the museum workers and volunteers
> I'm sure we were just a "bunch of little planes out in the parking lot."

No, to all of the museum workers and volunteers the "little planes" were
the action of the year. Most of senior management from downtown came to
the event (and loved it) and I think ALL of the security staff took
their breaks on the ramp. We usually had at least 4 security officers
on the ramp, but only 2 were out there officially! A good number of the
"volunteers" were employees from other divisions who were not getting
comp time! This event was truly everyone pitching in.

> But, with any luck, we *may* have provided a little enlightenment to a few
> visitors!

I think we did!

Margy
>
> Dang, Bryan, I wish we could have met "in the flesh"... Next time!
>
> Blue skies!